COMMENTS
Thanks Snap for everything you have done, and all you are doing now!
You are the man in front. Lead on!
Succinctly and well said! We need to keep focused on our mission of honor, respect and support of our military men and women and their families. Keep moving forward...look back only to study, correct deficiencies and strengthen the PGR! IMHO, the BOD is doing a great job. Thanks.
Bear,
I just read your diatribe against Jeff. I am curious about something. If you are writing for the whole BOD, why is it that only two members are listed as approving what you wrote; you and Snap. My experience with the National Office, after Jeff left the BOD, has been very disappointing. I find National unresponsive to anyone below the “rank” of an “official” RC. By official RC, I mean someone listed on National’s records. The only person at National whom I have any confidence in, is Bonnie. I had some confidence in you, until I read your “article.” I seldom order items from National’s store because it is so slow in filling orders (much slower than Jeff’s) and the quality of the items sold by your store does not appear to match Jeff’s. But most importantly, I have never read anything about what your article is talking about.
One last thing: It is my humble opinion that the PGR keeps growing not because of the National Office, but in spite of it. The growth of the PGR is attributable to the efforts of those at the state level and to Jeff’s vision; a vision that lead Jeff to form the PGR in the first place. Too bad his vision did not include the need to protect himself from those who would try to steal that vision from him.
DWAYNE,
The intent of the letter was not to belittle nor present a negative diatribe against Twister. The entire BOD supported the letter and it was issued to the State Captains, Snap at that time wished it to become a post in his Snap's Shack".
The issue's of the past need to be left in the past. Nothing negative was said about Twister, only a definition of the two entities and their relationship. No more, no less...
The letter was written in response to a demand from a few Captains that the relationship between the two be defined. Every effort was cleary made to define that relationship and leave hostilities or friendship at the door.
I have seen this topic turn ugly too many times and only wish for the past to remain in the past. What is done is done, and I frankly get real tired of unfounded charges of impropriety, or other such nonsense, and find that clearly defining what side of the street that each party stands on is not a bad thing.
Remember, you were urged to define your own relationship with Twister. Not told one way or the other what to do...... I for my part am not a puppet, band wagon joiner, mudslinger, nor politically correct decision maker. I can stand on my own two feet and folks needed to hear that!!
sad but true...a couple of Uncle Bubba's who want to stir the pot with their unfounded allegations, and who have nothing but malice in their hearts that cause eveybody to start jumping around like they are walking on broken shards of glass. No doubt they need to be taught what respect really means, keeping in mind that is the only prerequisite to be part of this awesome organization.
My thanks to the BOD for your efforts. I have confidence in each of you. You can't get it right every time nor please everybody.You get it right enough to keep us growing. The rest of us need to understand that and refrain from any disrespect, especially in open forum.
Twister's store does not need the publicity.
Dave Kern
Asst. State Capt.
PGRNY
To the nay sayers " Get thee behind me Satan" Apes standing by, theengineer
The only concern I have is, the article references an email that is not presentavailable to read.
I guess I'm a little confused, as are others, it seems, since the article is answering and email that many have not even heard about.
Personally, I could care less about the topic in your article, however, if you are going to post a response to an email, the email should be posted, as well, so that all of the information is available.
Thanks,
Phoenix
I agree, Phoenix. I was reading the article and saying to myself, "What the hell is he talking about?"
Phoenix and Granny Red,
The topic is the PGR and outside influences. As you have pointed out, as well as others, a very few have raised a stink behind the scenes about outside influences, and propriety of the acting BOD.
The above statement is only meant to define that nobody not on the BOD has a voice in BOD decisions. It is a shame to keep rehashing that topic, but some folks refuse to look ahead and keep rolling in the mud of yesterday.
Rest easy in your lack of knowledge, because you didn't miss much!!
Where's the e-mail Bear. ... I've endorsed you for the Leader of the PGR and I expect that will happen. But where is the e-mail and who initiated it. Not BS, but proof.... So all will know I'm the one that got this last round started. My doings. But if you' re in the 'inner circle" you know that already. For those that are wondering whats going on you can contact me at ... nannel@cableone.net ..... Ross Shamrock Neely. The truth needs to9 come out. THE BOARD NEEDS TO AKNOWLEDGE the the truth also. By not doing it you are continuing a travesty of justice. .... I won't shut up as some have said I should do. I'll give you round one. Watch out for the next one. ..... Ross Neely
We can't complain that we don't hear things and when we get the communication that is clear what it is talking about we shouldn't complain that we hear something.
I for one am glad to see some communications and it makes a clear statement. I don't care what the email said or who sent it.
Bottom line is we received a communications, subject was clear, Bod position was clear, and we understand that there are not ties to another non-PGR related store.
I trust ANY Bod member that speaks for themselves and for all of the Bod members. If we expect every Bod member to put their personal endorsement on everything that comes out...when will they have time to do important things that supports our mission? I trust if there is a disagreement they WILL deal with it and it will be taken care of.
I trust Snap, Bear, Ed, Bonnie, and Jason. If a Bod member has a problem with something they say or do...I trust it will be dealt with and taken care of in an Ethical manner.
Ya know, this is almost comical. This same argument was going on a year ago about Twister and blah b;ah blah. The reality is, while everyone seems to have an opinion it simply is unimportant in the grand scheme of things. The PGR has continued to grow, and it will continue to grow. The majority of us take the PGR far too serious to sit and worry about idol gossip and delusions of others. The BOD has worked very hard over the last year and the new BOD once seated will work equally as hard if not harder. There will always be questions, and hopefullly the answers will be ones we can all agree on...but that won't be every time.
Our mission has not changed, we all step out with our hearts in our hands and give it up every time knowing it will be broken. That is I believe, true of each and every one of us.
The membership screamed for communication, we have communication! Ronny has been about as honest and soul bearing as anyone I have seen. Maybe we should all be grateful for that. I know I am. I like it much better when a BOD member takes the time to answer me honestly with clear fact. It beats the hell out of secret agendas and posturing for the sake of "looking good". I expect people to walk their talk, and so far painful as it may be Ronny is doing that.
I personally don't give a damn about the store. Why? It has no affect on my missions. If the quallity is good and I need it for my mission...the reality is someone is making a buck off of it. Is that cheating? Nope, it's the world of business. On the flip side, so much has been made of this, I fully expect....DEMAND that the BOD hold any company we deal with in the future to the same standards and every BOD member to the same standards they held Twister to. Walk the talk!
It's all good Ronny, I don't give trust too easily (ask Snap)....but you got my trust and my support!
Louann Thomas
Arizona State Captain
Patriot Guard Riders
I must agree with Louann, this is the PGR, we pay no membership dues, and we ride for a purpose...our Military...
I remember Viet nam, the horrible homecomings...those that were forgotten, and left behind....It is my duty to not let that EVER happen again...
We all have an opionion, and this is the great USA, we have the freedom to voice that...our military makes sure of that....
I stand with the PGR, ride with the PGR and will be forever greatful for those that put the great orginazation together.
I could care less if someone has dealings with another.....I AM HERE for the Military...
Jim "Cranium"
USN 72-82
Well Said!!!!!
Joe" Bulldog " Mann
Ride With Pride Al. VII
I appauled the BOD for finally and specifcally stating their collective stance with regards to this issue at hand. It would have been nice if it was sooner rather than later, but I'll accept it none the less.
It's been stated, "to know where you're going, you've got to know where you've been." that being said.... IMNSHO, the BOD not only initiated this but brought this backlash on themselves... Whoever on the BOD requested Twister to make a speech at the 07 GOTH and receive a plaque, rewarding him for “his vision” should have had the foresight, based on his history of how opportunist exploits opportunities.
Now I didn’t see, read or hear any emails or postings asking Twisters to “post” his 07 GOTG speech, and based on his past statements and declarations throughout 2006... I have reservations as to the validity of that statement... he's posting the speech in the National Forums.... which brings out all the kool-aid drinkers and brown noiser out of the woodwork... telling him how great and honorable he is..... to what purpose? Gives him the delusion he's back in the saddle is my take on it. IMNSHO….. If Twister wants to show how great a guy and PGR member he is... let him legally release and/or relinquish the "Riding for Respect" motto / logo back to the PGR organization he had a "Vision for" and show me it isn't all about profits or his retirement fund. That act alone, in my mind will set a legacy of how honorable Twister can be. Until that happens, there isn't anything anyone can say or do (other than shoot me dead) that will change my opinion about an opportunist.
This is not a personal attack on any one individual... merely Historical Facts and my personal opinion. If you don’t like it... Let’s just say we can agree to disagree. I don't really agree with your point of view, but it still yours to which I respect. I've paid my dues, spilled my blood 10 fold to voice an opnion. I believe I know what reaction(s) this entry will generate… possibly even be deleted. Somebody surprise me and encourage all what we’re suppose to be living and breathing…. “do the right thing.”
Let’s start with Twister working on that legacy. I remain,
Good Morning. I have been bighting my tongue on this one however, I too was a recipient of the email and when I replied, I replied TO ALL so for those of you that received the reply, you know my opinion on this subject. Every group, organization, association and fraternal organization has their S_ _ _ Stirrers (SS)! Some of the REPLY ALL's that I received (along with some private emails addressed to me) were from of these SS types. Bottom line, I agree with and support Bear and certainly support my friend and Brother - Snap without question as I know most of you do! For the ones that don't it's because our troops (past, present and future) are allowing you the freedom of speech that you love to use to start trouble. Not everyone agrees with Bear and Snap as I do and you’re not expected too but the ones that want to start problems within the ranks really need to find a different group to ride with. Have a nice day; take care, God Bless and Ride Safe.
With Love and Respect,
Dinky Dau
I'm just Joe Schmoe or GI Joe down here in SC, you know, one of the guys that makes up the Rank and file of the PGR. The Grunts as some would say. I am sick to ferkin death of the Politics, the PGR is about one thing and one thing only, Honor Missions, for any and all veterans, as Steam once said, We(SC) are gonna continue to do as we have always done. That said it all for me.
It would be nice for the Rdiing with Respect, be returned to the PGR, If whoever gets rich because of it, if he can live with it, I can. Let's focus on why we are the PGR, Let the BULLSHIT die right here, right now.
All the badass keyboard commandos on both sides of the issue need to grow tfu and forget all this BS. The Mission, y'all remember the Mission?
If you show up for a Flag Line, I'll stand with ya, one and all, because ALL I care about is THE MISSION.
You know... I'm headed out for a mission in the next 20 mins.... in the thunder ligthening and rain.... wouldn't miss it, or any other of the 100+ I've been on for the world. BTW, I'll match my "patriot" resume, past & present next to anybody's... No brag... just fact. You all that are riding the mission, standing the flag line.... stay as dry as you can.... it's a gully washer tonight.
With Respect,
I served four years in the Air Force from 1980 to 1984. After 19 years, I enlisted in the Pa Army Nat'l Guard because I didn't feel as though I completed my service to this great country after 9-11. I am unable to continue for personal reasons, and will ETS this next month.
I was recently introduced to PGR and my immediate thought was "here is a way for me to show my support and respect for those that are able to continue to fight for our freedoms!".
I have just purchased my second piece of gear from the PGR store not realizing that there was any other place to get it. Although I did not receive the original email that obviously started this, it sounds to me as though Bear is telling me I can purchase flags, banners, patchs, etc. from any organization I want, as long as I hold the respect for our brothers and sisters in arms, that was the reason for my joining this organization. If this is incorrect, I would appreciate someone letting me know, and I will stop purchasing gear to identify myself as PGR so that I am not purchasing it from the wrong entity. And if it becomes a requirement that we own specific gear to be associated with PGR, then I will disassociate myself!!
To this point, I believe in what I see PGR stands for!! -- Honor and respect for those in arms to protect our freedoms!!!
I will be riding for SPC Zachary Clouser in York, Pa tomorrow! I hope all will know that I am there for respect of what this great young man has given up for me and my family --- regardless of how any one else feels.
SPC, Pa Army Nat'l Guard
Veteran, US Air Force
When you see a mother's eyes as she comes by to thank you because you are standing in the flag line for her son...how does that stack up against all this bickering? The answer is, of course, that it doesn't. Let's keep the main thing the main thing. It doesn't matter what Bear said, or Snap said, or Twister said. That sounds so junior high once its written down, doesn't it?. What matters is the honor and respect we pay to the service men and women, and their families. It does not matter if those military personnel are walking back home (HOTH) or are being carried (Missions). If you wish to do something more that is constructive, might I suggest prayer. Pray for our troops that are still over there and their families over here.
I stood at a mission in Downers Grove, Illinois yesterday watching the young wife of the dead Marine collapse to the ground wailing and crying.
It was disturbing, to say the least, I was moved to quiet tears myself.
Measured against something like that, what I think of any member or where I buy a vest patch means nothing. I repeat.. NOTHING!
Think about it.
David
Patriot Guard Rider as long as I'm still breathing.
"The letter was written in response to a demand from a few Captains..."
This, to me, is a concern. That a few captains can get a very public response such as this on one subject, but not on others...
There sometimes seems to be a hap-hazard way of addressing issues, whether they are brought up by a few captains who may or may not be presenting collective views of their local members, or whether they are expressed by many members directly in the forums and e-mails.
I understand the BOD has to prioritize how they respond and to what, but as many have stated, I don't understand how this issue is so important.
We still have other issues to resolve that do directly effect members' ability to keep up with missions. We still need guidelines for ride captains, and clearer expectations and understanding of "chains" of communication which vary from state to state. We continually have new members asking the same questions as always, so I'd rather see a focus on making everything more "user -friendly."
I was unaware that issues over Jeff's intentions still existed, and I'm not sure how they could in any way that affect our missions.
I appreciate the concept of open communication, but don't understand why it only applies to certain things brought up by certain people.
I was unable to attend the mission for Spc. Clouser today, and I've already visited that thread and added words from my heart there...so here I am trying to catch up with PGR "news."
Respects to all,
Tess
As a member of the military and the patriot guard, I thank each one of you for your support of our nations military members and our families. I hope those of you who are wrapped around the axle over this store issue will consider shopping some where else and just continue to support the needs of our military. I ask this because we need you more than words can possibly explain.
To hell with the BOD, to hell with Twister, to hell with Jeff and to hell with all of the BS. I, no doubt like the vast majority of PGR members, joined this group because I felt that not enough was being done to honor those men and women who were willing to don the uniform and stand in harms way. I couldn’t give a crap about what the BOD, RCs or anyone else thinks. The real image of what we stand for is played out everyday by the dedication and individual commitment of the riders who show up for a mission. I have yet to see any local or national publicity that touts the efforts of the PGR’s BOD. Give credit where credit is due—to the rider members; they, not Jeff, not the BOD, are really the PRG in the public’s eyes.
One final thought, this organization was formed on good intentions. When those intentions become clouded by autocracy and political oversight, then another new organization can be formed in a heartbeat to fulfill the original need. I, for one, would have no qualms about doing just that if I felt that the organization was becoming too politically motivated or self-serving—think about it.
I am a member. I don't even know what the issue is about.
I do know that the PGR mission is not about us. It is about them.
I can't put it any simpler than that.
All that we do and say has to be directed towards what is best for those we stand for.
Take pride in our actions be humbled by the actions of our soldiers, sailors, marines and their families.
Okay, I guess it's time for me to chime in here. I, like other SC's, have the unfortunate ability to have our Inbox flooded with banterings back and forth on this subject. Many have asked, more than once, to be removed from the mail list so they may concentrate on the more important issues...the MISSION. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be happening and we're going to end up with the ol' proverbial snowball effect...SC's stepping down from their positions.
My biggest issue(s) with all of this nonsense is that it's being put up for EVERYONE'S eyes, not just our membership. Why do the family's of our Fallen Heroes have to be subjected to this when they are directed to our web site? Those that already are aware of who we are and what we do would probably have no real reason for visiting our site but, as is the case here in West Virginia, the word doesn't spread too quickly so we find it necessary to direct folks here, to give them a better understanding of who we are. Now I find it necessary to stop doing that in the hopes they will NOT come across this posting and be scared away by the "look of impropriety" that exists.
I have, unfortunately, read all the diatribe that's been posted here, all the e-mail bantering back and forth and the postings that have been made in other Forums and am, quite frankly, ready to puke my guts out! This "He said, She said" has GOT to stop, by EVERYONE! Accusations have been made, by BOTH sides, and all I've seen to substantiate any of it is mere words. Words don't "pay the bills" folks. As has been said before, if you're gonna talk the talk, you'd better be able to walk the walk.
From what I've "read", evidence has been offered with a means to confirm it, from Twister. Although there's been no vote asked for nor no poll started, I ask this of every sitting member of the BoD: PLEASE, put this subject to bed, once and for all. Get it OFF our mainpage. It should be "FOUO", viewable only to our membership (and even THAT'S going too far in my eyes!). Finally, and most importantly to me, we've been offered evidence, or witnesses, to support Jeff's claims. INVESTIGATE THAT FULLY! IF it proves correct and is substantiated, report the same to the membership. That is the ONLY way this fire is going to be extinguished, completely.
Respects,
Joe
I fully agree that this should be kept from the front page, yet it's been going on for over a week now. Families that see this will start wondering if this is an orginization they want associated with their families service. Respect is what we are supposed to be showing. Show some and ge this off the front page. Everyone needs to email the head haunchos and tell them to remove it, maybe then it will be far from visitors eyes. JMO
I just want to be there for my brothers and sisters who are out there for me. I would like to see this taken off the front page. Please??
TallMan
First---please remove this from the home page---think of the family and friends
Second---please remove this from the website---think of the family and friends and the PGR members (old and new) who are hurt by these postings
Third---please remember and focus on the mission
Fourth---if you can't remember and focus on the mission, please do the honorable thing.......
With much respect for the Patriot Guard Riders who CAN remember the mission, who CAN focus on the mission, and who stand next to me in the flagline with QUIET dignity and respect for our fallen soldiers.
Respectfully submitted,
starbike (not Anonymous)
I'm pretty new around here, but I strongly agree that this thread should be removed from the website. It's been my experience in life that taking a dispute among a few and making it open to all is generally a counter-productive thing to do.
The rank and file don't really care about personality disputes among a few guys at the top. We care about the mission. Let's hit the Delete button and get on with that mission.
I am Brand New today.
Well said, Cranium and TexIndian !!!!
No organization is flawless, Let It Go.
While I fully agree that this is no place for this discussion, if it were moved to a private thread, out jumps the TOU ENFORCEMENT AGENTS (akin to severe censorship with out justification)to quickly delete any posts that they disagree with or is not in their favor. One sided all the way.
Politics is alive and well in the PGR yet today and this is NO PLACE for this kind of crap. It creates hard feelings and takes away from our main goal which is HONOR to our HEROS.
I buy from twisters now because his products are of a much higher quality and cheaper and delivery is very promt and FREE. If he can make a living out of selling better for less then so can the current BOD.
POLITICS in the PGR is bad news and just plain sucks.
Rayhog2
I am Da Wall member #29901 an I have been hearing about this "problem" for way to long. I have seen R/Cs, S/Cs, and BODs come and go. To my understanding all these positions are filled by volenteers. People who were in the right place at the right time, who saw a need and filled the spot. To my knowledge there has never been any kind of vote or election, just aparently this political infighting and back stabbing all the while glad handing each other about how great this thing we do is, conversly yall are. Me I"m just one lone rider, was aproched once to be a R/C an ansered I"m a Petty Officer and that it is spelled p e o n. I have been on to many missions where there were 10 or less riders and at least 3 of these riders were R/Cs . One mission there were 4 R/Cs and me! I have also stood Flag and gave esscort alone. No one ever asked me about or told me about our state polices and problems let alone national. Every thing I have done has been out of my own (and my familys) pockets and time. Nobody pays to repair my iron horse when it goes down but me! Now if Twister wants to run a store and make a buck thats fine with me (it really is a much better store), and I understand that he gives generously of the profits in PGR intrests. Does he advertise in any PGR space? Do you see him or anyone else passing out Twister cards to drum up business on missions. Whose gear is stamped made in China? As a PGR member I cast my vote here and now to make this problem be resolved. There is now a survay on our site about this years Gathering of the Guard. Lets have a survay about these two stores and not let the BOD or S/Cs be allowed input. From the ranks I can tell you there are far more important issues that need to be addressed that are not being done so!!! Standing-by in Gaithersburg Md. Da Wall Now I try to post and am deamanded of a rating, is this how you drive away the fustrated?
It's a sad thing to see all the bickering back and forth within such a "Great" organization. I would venture to say that 90% of the members in the flag line (not RC's or SC's or CSRC's, Mentors or any leaders) simply don't care to hear about issues like these. We CARE about the Mission, about the PURPOSE of the mission...........Showing Respect! This thing needs to be settled, but it needs to be settled behind closed doors, not in the public eye. A lot of things happen in life that we don't agree with, things that we aren't happy with, but we move on, we put it behind us and let the wounds heal. I'm truely sorry if Twister got a raw deal, I don't know how it happened, or why, but I think it needs to be burried, and I'm willing to stand in the flag line and show my Respect during the service. No organization as huge as the PGR can function without problems, without complaints and difference of opinions, and there will always be something going on, someone complaining, someone threatening a law suit, someone trying to change this or that. So we need people in leadership positions that can deal with these things quietly, without hurting the PGR's reputation, without hanging our dirty laundry out for everyone to see. I for one would like to see this and all other issues that are being disputed, debated or argued, kept away from the public eye. I only want to do ONE THING, and that is to "Stand for those who Stood for Me". I'm not interested in POWER struggles, or positions of leadership, who's right, or who's wrong. I'm only interested in the PURPOSE of the PGR, and that is to show RESPECT for our Fallen and wounded Heroes, our Veterans of Foreign Wars, our Law Enforcement Officers and our Fire Fighters who serve our Country and our Communities, and those who give their life for Us in the line of duty. That is my purpose for becoming a member of the PGR, because I'm so proud of what They do for US. I sincerely Hope that this matter will be resolved quietly and put to rest for the good of the Patriot Guard Family.
T-Bone
Me and my girlfriend are new members..we where at aaron swansons funeral in jamestown ny. .this group is a awesome thing to be a part of.anytime we can help...we'll be there.
I just wanted to say that I'm proud to have had the chance to join such an organization. I have much respect for the people making the efforts. I believe that anyone willing to take the time and make the efforts for these causes, should be commended. I personally stood proud as a new member. I was very happy to have met such people. Thank you for all that you do....