COMMENTS
I want to thank you Snap and the rest of the board members for doing whatever needs to be done on the corporate/business side of the house.
I know we're in good hands.
We'll take care of the other part, following our mission statemen and honoring our Hereos.
Snap, Waldo, and the rest of you, thank you for doing all that you are doing!!!
This is both most enlightening and most disturbing news. Why was Jeff telling us that we had 501(c)3 approval if the application was never filed?
I'm glad to hear that the issue is being addressed in a forthright manner. Perhaps in the mean time we should seriously consider removing all references to us being a 501(c)3 from the website.
How was this missed? I await the implications, and the accountability. Above reproach is always a good action step to be taken every day. How was this missed?
A new Top Dog and an OPEN Board of Directors in the PGR. What a concept.
Keep up the good work.
Dennis
The above post is mine. I didn't realize I wasn't logged in.
Dennis
Folks,
Don't get all worked up over this.
The 501c3 non-profit corporation has been in place for a long time. The federal govenment gives you 12-18 months after filing to complete a set of questionaires. I gave copies of the questionaires to Kurt Mayer and Jason Wallin.
Jason and I were to complete these in Sturgis, but Jason didn't have time. I gave him my copy in Stugis and he said he would take care of it when he got home.
We're still well within the time frame, so don't worry.
Jeff
Damn Jeff you turn your back for a minute and the dogs are looking for a piece of your ass. What's going on?
Breathe in through the nose out through the mouth. It will all be ok. It is all good except for the bad stuff and the bad stuff is not nearly as bad as some have it. If you doubt me, ask yourself one question; Is any one shooting at you? If the answer is, no it will be ok.
ISA 6:8
Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Snap, my brother 66,000 believe in you and will follow in your foot steps. Thanks for taking the challenge, a true American to lead a group of true Americans. Thanks for calling me your brother.
nooo prblem I have complete faith that this will all be taken care of. everybody relax and let national do what they said they will do. peace out.
No worries here. If the issued were being hidden from the masses, then I might wonder. Thanks for keeping us all informed.
3 out of 12 posts find fault ....over something that has no impact on anything they do with or for PGR. 9 out of 12 continue their unwavering support, no matter what ....those folks understand!
I have my flag to show my support of my Country and those that defend her.
I have my heart to give to the family of the fallen or the Veteran.
I have my tear to share with all.
Nothing else really matters except others to share these days with.
Do I stand alone or will you join me?
Reaps
Snap ,Thanks for the info , Keep us posted
"9 out of 12 continue their unwavering support, no matter what ....those folks understand!
"
Unwavering support is a good thing.. TRUST is a more important issue, 66K+ TRUSTED the LEADERSHIP to "do the right thing" and make it all "legal" and, apparantley it was NOT done. Was it laziness, lack of interest or other issues? What about the people who "donated" and made a deduction on their taxes? If that person was audited and Big Brother IRS called him on the deduction.. and... NO such 501 Corp is found? Who's responsible for that?
And just to throw another issue into the foray, when is Jeff going to sign over the "intellectual property" rights to the PGR logo etc etc to the PGR? That's "doing the right thing"....
This has been a volunteer orginization, look how we have grown. I do not think anyone has been lazy!!!
Thank- you to our leadership past and present, I guess when you are brave enough to step up to a leadership position, you are also stepping up to have some stones thrown at you. I'm so sorry that folks find that a necessary thing to do, it is so very hurtful.
I for one am thankful that there have been people brave enough to be in these leadership positions, when they would rather be spending their time on the flag lines.
Thanks for all you do!!
God Bless You and PGR
Mary Anne Keough
As a volunteer organization that grew so quickly and took so much time from our leaders personal lives, WE Thank You. Nothing is ever perfect. But those throwing stones have taken their eye of the mission and instead are wasting time throwing stones. We didn't see t "Them" dedicate their time or energy nor did they have the "VISION". Get Over it... and be a real supporter of these families instead of picking up stones to throw.
PGR Leadership we are behind you !!!
We ARE Americans ! PGR Stands !
This is just a small pebble in a big pond I'm sure ther were about 2 millions details to be attended to. That everyone in the leadership of this organization has done everything in their power to do I have no doubt. Sometimes things just fall between the cracks. Anyone complaining has obviously never stepped up to a leadership position. Han tough this too shall pass.
PGR ROCKS!!!!
Amen, Reaps.
I'll stand with you, and all of the rest of m PGR family. That is my charge: to honor the fallen heroes who have protected my freedom.
Signed, CW, in her glass house....
In every organization there are growing pains – a problem with the 501-C-3 filing – lesson learned. In the A.B.A.T.E. of MN chapter that I belong to we have a CPA, a former lobbyist, a travel agent, to name a few professions, as active members. If we need something…. someone steps up to learn about the issue or they contact someone for help. This didn’t happen overnight it evolved over time. A.B.A.T.E. is a volunteer group and people contribute in anyway they can. This will happen in our group too as it grows.
A Proud PGR member.
M. O'Hern
My login must have timed out
M. O'Hern
A Proud PGR member and A.B.A.T.E. member
Where were the complainers when volunteers were asked for? They seem to know so much in hindsight, maybe their foresight would have prevented this, but I doubt it. Some people lead others follow, then some just whine. I trusted Jeff and I will trust Snap and his team..
Mickey
It's a shame that Snap can't simply provide information without the jackals and hyenas crying.
Chilll out folks. As an attorney who has done several non-profit 501c3 filings, I know this is often a long process-Certainly there is no fault here-It has progressed well within a normal time frame.
Chilll out folks. As an attorney who has done several non-profit 501c3 filings, I know this is often a long process-Certainly there is no fault here-It has progressed well within a normal time frame.
Snap,,
Little bit of paperwork aint no hill for a stepper like you and the new board,,with ya all the way Brother!!
Grinch
Snap,
Thanks for all the stuff you and the other leaders put up with!
Ain't nothing but a trivial matter. Thanks for what you do Snap, I hope I'll get a chance to meet you in person when I trailer south next month to escape the snow here in MI for a week. Your money won't be good at a local watering hole that week!
standing in the flag line is all that matters the rest is bull s---t for remf's
Twister: "The 501c3 non-profit corporation has been in place for a long time"
Just so everyone is clear on the facts here:
This statement is not a fact. The corporation has been in place for a long time. The 501(c)3 has never been applied for. Those are two completely different things.
Anyone can set up a non-profit corporation in the state they want to base it in. This incorporation is generally granted by the state's Secretary of State office.
On the other hand, a 501(c)3 tax-exempt status can only be granted by the federal Internal Revenue Service.
In other words, a non-profit corporation and a tax-exempt organization are actually two different things.
I should clarify the last sentence there.
They are two different kinds of status, an organization can obviously be a non-profit corp and be granted tax-exempt status.
BirdieMN can you say one nice thing about the PGR, or are you going to each and every thread and say the same thing. The BOD has addressed this many times, and Snap has also replied and everytime you continue to bash them. Your main job is the missions, not to constantly bad mouth Jeff or any other of our leaders. Snap is working on this, end of story, he has had the job just two weeks and is attending two missions in another state, while you sit here and continue to beat this dead horse. As you see from all of the support for them on here, you are the minority. The PGR is not about a store, but about a group of people who have come together to honor the fallen, and to honor ALL of our heroes, past present and future. We will not let you or anyone take away what we truly believe in, the MISSIONS.
Let me further clarify:
Snap and the Board the majority of us stand proudly behind you and believe in your direction, and thanks for putting up with all of the stones, I have no stones just tears for the missions.
It is a shame to see people fighting over trivial details. Did I join this organization to fight? No Did I join for a tax exemption? No Why did I join? To honor those who have fallen, and those who continue to support and defend this nation of ours.
If we all are here for the same reason (hopefully this is true), then wouldn't it be better to simply offer to help, instead of poking at the issues? Wouldn't everyone benefit more if we focused on the mission statement, and not on the paperwork, money, etc.? I don't mind the idea of possibly being able to deduct some of my expenses on my taxes, but that isn't why I do what I do. Is charity performed exclusively for a tax deduction really charity? I think not.
I don't care what the official classification of the PGR is, or whether or not it is tax-exempt, or whether not it is a 501-whatever. I care about the troops, and THEY are who I am here to serve.
I hope I never lose that focus.
To Jeff, Jason, Snap, and everyone else up the chain: You all have done things that I am proud to be a part of. I don't know why many events at the top have taken place, and frankly, don't need to know. Regardless of that, thank you all for your efforts, and let's get back to focusing on what is really important--the troops.
See you down the road...
Todd
People , you know how hard it is for you sometimes to find time to make a mission unless your retired. Jeff works full time and also makes missions, the primary reason for our organization. Lets cut him some slack please, he's a good man that was in a difficult position.
EVERYOHE TAKE A DEEP BREATH. WE HAVE GROWN TO 63,00 STRONG IN 1 YEAR"DOING THE RIGHT THING".THAT'S AMAZING! SOMEBODY STUMBLED, LET,S HELP HIM UP, NOT TRY TO KNOCK HIM DOWN.
TRICKY RIC
PANAMA CITY. FL.
QUOTE: "Chilll out folks. As an attorney who has done several non-profit 501c3 filings, I know this is often a long process-Certainly there is no fault here-It has progressed well within a normal time frame.
posted @ Saturday, November 18, 2006 7:57 PM by whitzoo " END QUOTE:
OK Whitzoo, go volunteer to take care of it, use your expertise and talents to "do the right thing" and GET IT FINISHED
QUOTE: " Jeff works full time and also makes missions, the primary reason for our organization. Lets cut him some slack please, he's a good man that was in a difficult position.
posted @ Sunday, November 19, 2006 12:37 PM by k5bjt" END QUOTE:
K5 So why did this whole Charlie Foxtrot happen if he's such a "good man"? Look at other threads of people who have suddenly had an attack of conscienceness and have profiteered in the name of PGR.
QUOTE: "Ain't nothing but a trivial matter.....posted @ Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:51 PM by mccallister " END QUOTE:
Mac.. it's not trivial when someone makes a tax deduction and the IRS calls him on it and there isn't a 501 Corp registered under PGR.. it can cost someone a pretty penny, never mind the hassle of dealing with the IRS.
QUOTE: "Where were the complainers when volunteers were asked for? They seem to know so much in hindsight, maybe their foresight would have prevented this, but I doubt it. Some people lead others follow, then some just whine. I trusted Jeff and I will trust Snap and his team..
Mickey
posted @ Saturday, November 18, 2006 5:43 PM by Mickey " END QUOTE:
Mickey, the "complainers" were kicked off PGR or made "persona non gratas" by leadership. That's where they were..all they asked for was some accountability.. remember ENRON? Do the math.. 60K members @ $40.00 average each for stuff is...$2,4000,000.00 ya two million plus of OUR dollars.. there's some accountablity for ya, and to think that most people thought it was run by the PGR NON-PROFIT part, not a FOR PROFIT privately held corporation...
TRUST is a big word, we did trust Mr. Brown for a while then came a few people who started asking questions, that's where it has gone from there. the PRESENT leadership has vowed to be up front, NO B.S. about the whole organization and so far it looks as though they are doing it. Communication is the way to run any outfit, no secrets, no coverups..I take my hat off to Snap for handleing the 400 pound gorilla and trying to make it work by being HONEST...I personally do not want the PGR to go down the tubes, it's a great thing, but egos must be trimmed, power trippers need to be dethroned, buffoons muzzled, and RC's and SC's need to get educated on local protocols and traditions.
I look forward to this happening so the PGR will, again, be a peaceful and TRUSTED organization...
Okay boys and girls. We still have a job to do and I won't stop doing it.
I can forgive the tax exempt status oversight, but I hope to HELL the hard earned money I paid for merchandise and contribution I have made have NOT been squandered. I swear to GOD I will personally take time off of my job and ride my bike to the felons doorstep and kick some tail. This BETTER be resolved and FAST.
The UGs let you know up fron that they hate the troops, and I can deal with that. What I can't stomach is the leader of this organization being to irresponsible and hopefully not criminal in his actions.
Until then I will NOT wear my PGR colors out in public. You have to EARN my respect again.
I was a day away from getting the PGR emblem tattooed on my arm. I will need to get back to them on that now.
I have my flag to show my support of my Country and those that defend her.
I have my heart to give to the family of the fallen or the Veteran.
I have my tear to share with all.
Nothing else really matters except others to share these days with.
Do I stand alone or will you join me?
Reaps
I joined to honor our fallen heros and their families, so did 65,000+ other members, I will stand with you in Texas. We had 16 missions in 18 weeks, do we have time to wonder what the BoD does. NO. Let them have some time to sort things out and take care of them. Answering 100+ emails & phone calls daily, doesn't get them nowhere. We have to be patient and be quiet. Let them (BoD)do their job and let us do ours. We all joined to give our best and honor to those who paid the ultimate price for us. Let's all focus on that and honor our soldiers and families.
I for one, am greatful for all the board of directors and other leaders ( past and present) who have made the PGR what it is today. Everyone who does not have a direct hand in the 501c3 process please focus on our part of the process( standing for those who stand for us ). I hope everyone has a safe and happy thanksgiving and that future missions are few and far between.
We are all brothers and sisters but we don't have to fight like them.
QUOTE: Chilll out folks. As an attorney who has done several non-profit 501c3 filings, I know this is often a long process-Certainly there is no fault here-It has progressed well within a normal time frame.
posted @ Saturday, November 18, 2006 9:01 PM by whitzoo
As someone who has filed for a 501c3...I know it takes time!!!! And there is an 18 month period to fill out and re-fill out all that damn paperwork! Every T must be crossed and every I dotted exactly like the government wants it...or you don't get it.
As has already been said, I trusted Jeff and I trust Snap and his entourage.
Please people...
Granny Red
Snap and all board members, I am just one of the 63,000 volunteers proud to support the missions you helped bring forward for the simple reason that it is the right thing to do. I have no worrries that the 301c issue will be resolved soon. Thank you for your sincere efforts, job very well done and the opportunity to serve as a volunteer in such anoble cause.
Thanks Again
Robbie
I did not join a business or a corporation! I joined a group of people that want to honor
Our soldiers and to support there families in there time of need. I did not join for a tax break
Or worry about who is getting what or who did what. I joined because it was a way to
Be organized in our support of the family and friends. We have many good people
That are giving there time to help us all do this. I you people keep whining, crying and
Pointing fingers for things that don’t amount to crap for what we on the line do then
All you are going to do is cause the people that are trying to help create something bigger
To just throw up there hands and walk away….. Are you ready to step up and take there job over…. I don’t think so…
Just quit you finger pointing and get out there where we ARE needed and this time
Of year we NEED more help then ever. It’s cold and nasty and fewer are showing up for the escorts. Please don’t worry about what is going in the BOD just get out and do what you came for…. TAX free or not… I WILL RIDE FOR THOSE WHO STOOD!
To dogtagdude and dbeesh,
If you spent money in the store and got the product you ordered, it's absolutely none of your business how the money was spent. It's awesome that the proprietor (sp) generously donated a portion of the proceeds to the PGR, but that was his choice. No one forced you into buying anything. If you buy a burger at BK, eat it and are satisfied with it, you have no say in what BK does with THEIR money--not yours. As BAIR says: SHADDUPALREADY!!!! (BTW, With the figures you used, it appears to me the person with the most to lose if the 501c3 isn't completed and granted is the one who donated the most, and I expect that would be the PGR Store owner.)
For all of you people making a big deal about this, go back and read our mission statement. This is all about RESPECT not who ddnt file what paperwork. Lets keep our focus on why this organization exists and why we are here.
Is there a link to the the minutes from our board of director's meetings? Are these being made public? It seems to me there is a lot of "upper-level" activity going on this past week, and as a member, I am concerned what you (we) are dealing with.
I would find it much easier to focus on the missions, if I was sure all was going fairly smoothly at the national level.
Old Stu
"BirdieMN can you say one nice thing about the PGR, or are you going to each and every thread and say the same thing. The BOD has addressed this many times, and Snap has also replied and everytime you continue to bash them. Your main job is the missions, not to constantly bad mouth Jeff or any other of our leaders. Snap is working on this, end of story, he has had the job just two weeks and is attending two missions in another state, while you sit here and continue to beat this dead horse. As you see from all of the support for them on here, you are the minority. The PGR is not about a store, but about a group of people who have come together to honor the fallen, and to honor ALL of our heroes, past present and future. We will not let you or anyone take away what we truly believe in, the MISSIONS.
posted @ Sunday, November 19, 2006 12:15 PM by kingshadow506 "
kingshadow506, I wasn't aware that clarifying facts was bashing anything. I was simply clarifying the post made by Jeff as it would be very confusing to those who don't understand the difference between the two things. I will not apologize for stating a fact.
I will respond to you offlist with the rest of my response to you as it is not appropriate to post it here.
Inquiring minds want to know!
How many of us thought the PGR store was run by the PGR, not a seperate entity? I did..
Here's the proof..
Found this on the Oklahoma Secretary of State's business filing site...
seems to be a descrepency or 2 .....check out "effective date" and "domestic not for profit"? hmmmm....
2112096608 PATRIOT GUARD RIDERS, INC. Domestic Not For Profit Corporation Legal
(RA) Registered Agent: Brown Jeffrey A
8321 S. 8th Street
Broken Arrow, OK 74011
(RA) Effective Date: 2/21/2006
And here's the CASH COW...
Select Filing Number Name Entity Type Name Type
3512096476 PGR STORE, LLC Domestic Limited Liability Company Legal
(RA) Registered Agent: BROWN BONNIE L
3708 S ELM PLACE PMB 137
BROKEN ARROW, OK 74011
(RA) Effective Date: 2/13/2006
After reading the above, I wonder how many members still want to buy Twister a new Harley?
Seems like he can certainly afford one.
RVNVET68
Lets see, how much did it cost me to join this group...
As always...Standing by
QUOTE:
That's where they were..all they asked for was some accountability.. remember ENRON? Do the math.. 60K members @ $40.00 average each for stuff is...$2,4000,000.00 ya two million plus of OUR dollars.. there's some accountablity for ya, and to think that most people thought it was run by the PGR NON-PROFIT part, not a FOR PROFIT privately held corporation...
Dude get a Life, 60k members with a 10% participation/activity rate, doesn't quite equate to $2.4m. And not everyone of the 10% buys something. Who's the Enron Accountant?? With all do respect Bro, your the one who needs to do the math!!
I personally solicited money from a 501(c)3 which also has a gambling license and they donated money from their gambling funds to PGR. The problem is they can't donate moneys to any organization except a 501(c)3 or they loose their gambling license. They dispense thousands of dollars each year to charities that assist veterans and now they could loose that ability because PGR posted on their website and Twister personally told me via email that PGR was a 501(c)3 corporation. So it does matter.
And to the detractors, I realize that I have only been able to either be the Ride Captain in Charge, or a Ride Captain for the mission for only 20 missions since joining in May of this year, but unfortunately my disability and finances often makes attending missions impossible. But I can assure you I've had my attention focused on the MISSION and HONOR to that fallen hero and showing RESPECT to his family and his community, thank you very much.
George
you do the paperwok and get everyone on the same page. I'll hold a Flag to silently Honor. I like it like that.. I gotta trust you, You gotta trust me.. .. let God sort out the rest...Sometimes when the enemy doesnt show up for awhile., our triggger fingers get itchy......Please..dont shoot the cook!!! Respect, dirtbike
TO ME THE PGR IS A GREAT ORGANIZATION, AND AM VERY PROUD OF BEEING A PART OF IT.
i HAVE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY IN THE STORE BECOUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS A PGR STORE. I DO FEEL LIKE I WAS LIED TO, AND HONESTY IN AN ORGANIZATION LIKE THIS IS IMPORTANT.
WE AS MEMBERS SPEND A LOT OF MONEY AND TIME TO DO THE RIGHT THING. RESPECT IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT IS IT NOT.
ALL IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS SHOULD DO THE RIGHT THING.I EXPECT IT, NO, I DEMAND IT.
I WILL CONTINUE TO BE PGR UNTILL I COME TO BELIEVE THAT THE PGR IS NO LONGER SERVING THOES THAT SERVE US, WITH RESPECT.
I DON'T CARE HOW YOU LOOK AT IT, I BELIEVE THAT MR. JEFF AND THE LEADERSHIP WAS LESS THAN FORTHCOMMING WITH THE STORE THING. I BELIEVED IT WAS A PGR STORE AND AS SUCH SPENT MY HARD EARNED MONEY THERE.
WE DO NOT DO THIS THING WE DO FOR "PROFIT"DO WE. IT IS A BIT DISHEARTNING TO FIND SOMEONE AT THE TOP TOOK ADVANTAGE OF US AS MEMBERS, ALL OF US. I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT.
BUT ALL THAT SAID AND DONE I ALSO BELIEVE THAT THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP ARE TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING NOW. I KNOW THEY MUST HAVE A HARD ROW TO HOE. GOD BLESS THEM AND LET'S ALL DO THE RIGHT THING.
Snap I send my thoughts and prayers to your ICVM brother who is terminally ill, and wish him and his family GOD SPEED. Was great to see you on your bike today, even though it was rather chilly, but best of all it was great to see you taking care of your brother.
I was wondering how many people put funds INTO the PGR store to get it started. If it was one (Jeff Brown) then that one person is the only one who deserves the money. The crap on here sounds like something the uglies would accuse someone of. Who cares if someone made money. Did anyone force us to buy from the PGR store? I was glad to be able to go online to buy the things I wanted and not pay shipping cost. Get a clue guys! But most of all REMEMBER THE MISSION!!!
There is no way anyone could foresee how fast this organization would grow. Guys it's called 'Growing Pains'. People are here crying about something that in the long run does not matter. What matters is our military, past, present and future. REMEMBER THE MISSION.
Can we all please just concentrate on the missions?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It makes me sick to think of the families of the soldiers signing on and reading these comments!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can handle the business matters directly with the BoD.
And, when you do-
please remember the PGR was started out of respect and patriotism by volunteers. . .not lawyers and CEOs.
We should NEVER lose sight of that.
OK, mistakes were made...but, they can be corrected. There is no reason to continue to rake people over the coals, it serves no purpose.
Please try to show respect on this site.
Still proud and ready to ride...(well, ok..drive)
MK =)
Hey, I'm a new kid on the block and was just searching the site to get more information.
I'm glad to see that the PGR have a membership that cares and will question the operations and management of the organization. I'm also glad to see the leadership dealing with this problem out into the open for everyone to see.
You all have valid points.
It's obvious to me that you all care and are passionate about the mission of the PGR.
I'm looking forward to meeting some of you soon when I pay my respect on my first ride.
Meanwhile I'll continue to check out the site, learn more about the PGR, put my trust in the leadership "and" the membership to pull together on the problems and I'll go check out the store. They might have something I want to buy.
Waiting in Georgia.
It looks like the ug's have invaded the PGR threads !! There are a half dozen whiners who are trying to discredit all the leadership,who have spent more time getting us to where we are today than probably all the whiners combined.
To those whiners I say" Get over it or get LOST !!" We don't need your type people , who try to bring disgrace to the real workers in our organization. The rest of us want to man as many flag lines as we can afford and I will buy my equipment from the PGR store , as I have done in the past !! I got my money's worth and I'm not complaining for all the world to see !!
If you are so dissatified - as I said " GET LOST !!"
Bob Olds - A REAL PGR member.
In my 30 + years of being associated with non-profit organizations I always find some have a need to control money or question were their $20 bucks went.
Ok, a hat cost you $15. The hat cost PGR $10. The logo cost $3. Profit $2. If you feel that the PGR Board is not doing it right. Volunter to do it for them. There is a mission here. Don't forget it! All talk and no action!!!
This is not a good thing for a great organization like PGR.
Board, Keep up the fine work!!
Dennis Jolly
PGR: DMJolly
Standing by!!
Standing by in Eden Prairie.....awaiting mission instructions.....standing for those who stood for us.
--ashbycarter
i have the pleasure to know Jeff,i am here in his home town.i do not feel that he bilked monies or profited to line his pockets,he already had a motorcycle when he pushed the PGR forward,and he would not ride a HARLEY anyway.
so if all you have to do is gripe about where your $20 went then you have too much time on your hands,and you should step forward and see if you can do a better job,i will see Twister and his wife on a future mission and i will stand proud beside them!
Rant over!!
I have been a part of PGR since the early days, and not once did I pay more for an item from the store than I would have at Wal-Mart (without the logo). Plus free shipping!
If any of you detractors think that the PGR store made a profit of an average of $40 from each member, you need to wake up and have some strong coffee!
I consider myself pretty well equipped with PGR stuff and I don't think I have spent $100 - GROSS!
In addition, I have been on dozens of missions to see RC and SC's handing out free stuff - probably out of their own pockets. Some of our national staff have paid for numerous plane trips around the country, think about that!!!
Jeff, I consider you to be one of the most honorable men I have ever known of, I hope to meet you some day! If I ever win the lotto, I WILL BUY YOU A NEW HARLEY! (of course I never buy tickets but it is the thought that counts right?)
Snap, thank you for stepping up, you might need some hip waders for awhile, but I am sure you can handle it.
Teresa
I for one,,am damn tired of all the finger pointing, and B/S thats going on,,I joined this outfit to do 1 thing,,well 2 really,,
1. PAY HONOR TO THOSE WHO FALL
2. ride my scoot and meet and make new friends,,both which I have done and will continue to do.
Snap is doing his damnest to get things right,,I think we should just back the hell off and leave things alone so Snap and the BOD can do their job,,
And since I am on my soapbox,,yes, the membership tally shows67-68,000 members.
How many of those 68,000 have not bought 1 thing from the store, or been to a mission,,I saw first hand the way the numbers jumped during the Rick Monday Flag Escort,,this organization grew so fast, the site could not handle the growth..my point being,,let the BOD do what they need to do,,we ( the members ) need to do what we do best- ride and stand tall and stand pround..
Snap,,Hang in there Brother, was good talking to ya last week
Grinch
The past is history, the future is ours if we care to look forward. I stand with our new leadership.
Standing by the BOD. I Joined to Honor my fellow Brothers in Arms. The BOD has and continues to do Great things. "Drive On"
Chief, in Tall Afar Iraq
Holy Toledo, I spend more than $40.00 just sitting in a bar after a mission just trying to deal with the grief I see in these Heroe's families eyes. If you're here for a tax write off you are in the wrong place. I didn't even think about the $50.00 I spent in the store for patches and such. I wonder if the complainers react the same way when they drop a couple of hundred at the local Harley dealership for their latest fashion statement leather? I joined the PGR for one reason..... to show my respect for the soldiers and their families for their sacrifices they make.
Let us keep our focus on the mission. The other things will work themselves out. We need to remember WHY we joined PGR. Trust our leadership to do the right thing.
I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon, but it seems like this is open season on anybody you want to point a finger at. People are pointing mostly at Twister, Jeff Brown, and at Jason, Bonnie, and yes, even Snap. If in fact there really was damage done to the PGR reputation, and we all had sent money to a privately owned company, knowingly or not, it's already happened. If you say something totally inappropriate or even incorrectly in a court room, especially in front of a jury, a lawyer will respond with,"Objection your honor." And guess what, the judge will respond and may even say,"Strike that from the record." But guess what, it's no longer in the minutes of the trail, but who gives a shit, THE JURY ALREADY HEARD IT. Folks, the damage is done, and nobody got their remarks deleted from this site. Most of the problems are coming from NON PGR people, or former PGR members that no longer are. Go read the forums on Florida Patriot Guard, notice NOT Patriot Guard Riders. There are, I believe four states that no longer are PGR, although not all Florida riders dropped out of PGR, some did and a lot of sh** is coming from there and some of the other Drop Outs. Notice the bashing post's above coming from the state of MN. It just doesn't matter who's doing the bashing does it, docgrizzly, everybody is now exposed, that is, the ones that MAY have a dark secret are now on the hot plate. NON OF THIS MATTERS ANYMORE. Those that may have screwed up will have to answer for it. Here's the the deal, ARE WE STILL PGR, WILL WE HAVE TO ADOPT A NEW NAME, WILL WE HAVE TO COME UP WITH A NEW LOGO, DID WE ALL PURCHASE OBSOLETE MERCHANDISE, OR WILL IT BECOME OBSOLETE AFTER SNAPS NEXT POST??? I believe the PGR still has a State Ride Captain that is being accused of being an imposter. A former Navy Seal, there are no records of this man even being in the military, let alone a Navy Seal. How come nobody's b*tch*ng about that??? We have to stop shooting at each other. The original idea of the PGR was a noble one, it's going to be difficult to keep it noble because of a few bashers. These people would probably complain about a free piece of ***, their ultimate goal seems to be to rid the PGR of Jeff, come hell or high water. They seem to not even want him or the other's accused, to even stand in a flag line. This is not what we, the PGR, want the public to see or read. At least all this crap was brought out in the first year, not the tenth or later. Read the Florida Patriot Guard forums, stepping down, resign??? that's not good enough. Some want Jeff to be be-headed, burned at the stake, stoned to death, and thrown to the lions, and still won't be happy. Come on. Jerry
It is a shame that we have PGR doing UG's work! LET IT GO!!! When you "simply clarify the facts" you are doing no good for PGR. Take it off line if it is that important to you. National - you have my unwavering full support. Twister - you started something awesome that I am grateful to be a part of and I thank you. Snap - you have my sincere condolences that you will ALWAYS have those that beat the horse when it can't fight back!
Thanks for the up front information. I will trust the leadership to follow through and take care of this matter. It appears that we are in the alloted time frame, so what's the big fuss??
It's being handled.
HeavyDuty
Reaps, I stand with you.
Tom Burch
Rescue, CA
I have never Met "Twister" but I trusted and still do trust him. I have never met Snap, but I trust him as well. I will continue to spend money in the PGR store..this is America and that is my right, won by the blood of many Heroes. I will continue to ride with Respect. I joined the PGR because of the Mission statement...I stay because of the incredible things we do for the families of the fallen Heroes... and the wonder in the eyes of the returning Heroes, Vets, their Families and all that see us doing what we do! PGR is a good thing and those in leadership are good people..we are all volunteers here, timelines happen because people are still learning...those who judge will be judged!! WE ALL RIDE WITH RESPECT...and if you don't, please don't tarnish that respect for others. SNAP and all of you in leadership, Keep up the good work, you have something to be proud of... and Jeff, I still thank you from the bottom of my heart for ALL that you have done and continue to do.
Bikerbabe
Navy Mom, Ride Captain and Proud Member of the Patriot Guard Riders
I GOT TWO RULES TO LIFE
RULE 1 DONT SWEAT THE SMALL SH**
RULE 2 IT'S ALL SMALL SH**
GET OVER IT MOVE ON, OR MOVE OUT
CINCO
OK Goof-Balls.. that want to "Dog..."-pile' pile of )^T$&) ... (end quote) attitude,..
With your "$2mill." crap-ola... lets not forget the (for exsample) cost of that hat, the emboridery of that hat(with a one time created logo) of that hat the insrance of that hat. the FREE shipping of that hat...
..NOW SELL THAT FOR UNDER $6!!! (Shiped)....
Any takers!?!?!?!!!!!!!!
I've met Snap (Bill) personally at a "Meet & Greet" meeting in Jackson, MS in November and was impressed with his dedication, openness, and call to duty. He is and will do the right thing for the betterment of PGR and I trust him explissively.
I've conversed with Jeff (Twister) by email and believe his side of the story and point of view, and that his motives and behavior is honorable, even though PGR is moving in a different direction. I support him and his membership in PGR, and wish him and his family well. I also acknowledge and honor his vision and work in founding PGR and leading it to where it is today.
I will support Jeff's PGR store and believe him in his statements to me of what has been donated to PGR from his merchandise sales (approx $70k) and that all pure donations went to PGR.
If you wish to purchase PGR merchandise from Jeff's store, you can Google "Patriot Guard Riders Online Store" or the web domain name url is "www.patriotguardstore.org"
I'm a member since April and know what chaos is living in a suburb of New Orleans.
Just my humble 2 cents.
There really needs to be a email address for these inquiries... and or a FAQ area for all this info. to be public.
!!!NOT OUT ON THE WEBSITE!!!
Like some freak show free for all... for all to see.
If this type of open laundry.. pot-shot style of dealing with our growth sperts.
WILL BE THE DEMISE OF THE PGR.
Clean this website up, and lets look like a place family members of our fallen and homecoming would want to be.
Shheesss.
I've just got to make a couple of quick points, then back to the mission.
1 - I would imagine that at its outset, the PGR Organization didn't have the funds needed to buy merchandise up-front, or pay someone to do the all the work; and it would have been folly to risk a fledgling organization's funds on a bet that anything would sell. But an individual stepped forward do both of these things for this group. For this, he very much deserves our respect and thanks.
2 - It's a good bet that after money is invested in merchandise, shipping supplies, postage, etc., and untold hours are spent on the phone, email, packing and shipping, etc., and a good portion of the "profit" is donated to the PGR, that Jeff's take for the time he has spent providing this service for this organization is much less than minimum wage.
3 - I'm not really sure how much I've spent on merchandise at the PGR Store, but I've been very satisfied with the quality, the value received for my money, and the service. I'm amazed any profit has even been made. I have no complaints.
4 - Another good bet would be that those who are doing all of the complaining would never have stepped forward to provide this service for this organization, would not be willing to risk their own money to fund it up front, and would not do the work that Jeff has done for the small profit that he might have made.
5 - I hadn't even thought of trying to take a tax advantage for the privilege of honoring our fallen troops. How crass is that?
6 - Jeff, Snap, everyone else who is, or has been, in a leadership position in this organization, you have my most sincere thanks, admiration, and respect. Shrug off the idiots, and know that you are appreciated. Thank you for taking on and doing a job that none of them would attempt.
Someone earlier on this thread stated something like "buffoons should be muzzled". The most amazing thing was who it was who said it. It's like he had looked in a mirror, and was finally inspired to say something right.
One final point please. If you are truly unhappy about this organization, we really don't need you. Please do the rest of us a favor, and go away.
Now please, back to the mission!
Please, NO MORE POSTS!
Lock it up. thanks
nuff said!
Agreed, Leanman, I think you just about covered it for me as well.
Thank You.
Jeff, God bless you for what you helped create. I can not even guess at what cost to your personal life.
Snap,Thank You brother for taking us into the future, I hope we can justify your trust.
and to the other 70,000 of the PGR that ride and stand in the freezing cold,the drenching rain,the hot sun, Thank You for the honor of standing with you.
possek